MagicEngine

Kadamose · Visitor Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 10

Can we please see this, David? I personally don't see what the problem would be to port it over...you basically have all the necessary components and a good video card to do such a thing. And now that the Xbox no longer requires a modchip thanks to the Free-X exploit, everyone would be able to have access to it.

The Xbox has a hard drive, so unlike the other consoles, you'll be able to save your registration information etc on it. Please consider making a port!! Hugo-X has been ported over to it, and it works beautifully - but the compatibility on some games is questionable, though the CD emulation is almost flawless. I would much prefer to play Magic Engine on my Xbox, than Hugo...but if I can't have it, at least I have some PC-Engine emulator for it. For that, I am grateful.

Kaminari · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:31 pm Post subject:

The main problem I see has to do with the X-Box dev kit. If you don't have a (very costly) license for it, you can't legally use it. That's why Hugo-X is, strictly speaking, completely illegal. Even if it's free. Yes, M$ is a bitch.

And Magic Engine is a commercial emulator; that means David would earn money with a program illegally developed... See what I mean?

Kadamose · Visitor Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 10

You don't have to necessarily use the XDK - it just makes porting over the code that much easier. There are a few emulators which do this...MAME, Dreamspec, and the Apple II emu, for example, don't use the XDK...or he can simply make a Linux port of ME, (which should not be hard at all) and he won't have to bother with recompiling specifically for the Xbox.

I would be willing to pay $50 or more to see Magic Engine on the Xbox. There are main advantages for David to port ME to the Xbopx - since the Xbox is a universal system (meaning, that the hardware specs are the same for everyone) - he won't have to waste time trying to optimize code, so that ME will work with several drives, video cards, etc.

I think it is definitely something he should look into because Magic Engine on the Xbox would look absolutely gorgeous, and would actually replace the Turbo Duo on the TV set.

Tru · Regular Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 170 Location: SomeWhere

my 2 cents worth... Why would someone want to Replace the Duo? Emulators re not made with replacing in mind... or am I the only one that thinks this? I mean sure... there are more than likely several people that do not own a Duo and would love to be able to play games on the TV... but if that is the case... head over to www.tzd.com and buy a Duo. I personally would want to see an emulator able to play on the dreamcast.. only for the translations of Hu-Card games. As for anything else... why? Buy a Duo and stop being a cheap a§§!

Trû
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There are only 2 races on this planet... the Intelligent and the Stupid...

Kadamose · Visitor Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 10

Tru, I own both a Turbo Duo and a PC-FX system. The reason I want an emulator to replace them is High-Resolution, Graphic Filters, and HDTV support.

I love my Duo to death and consider it to be the best system of all time, but I want something with a little more functionality...one that plays all the ROMS and all the CD-ROM games...something the Duo can't do without paying a fortune.

Kaminari · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:24 pm Post subject:

Kadamose has a point here.

Of course the real hardware rocks, and Turbo Zone Direct has made a fine supporting job so far, but sadly we all know it won't last forever. Our systems are now more than ten years old and I can't keep the count of NEC consoles that fried around me during that period. It certainly won't go better in the next years.

That's where the emulators enter the scene. Whatever the machine they will run on, these programs will help us maintain the PC Engine legacy, even when the real thing will have completely vanished from the surface of the Earth. I personally would prefer to see a Dreamcast port, but an X-Box port would certainly please many people - though I don't believe it will ever happen for the reasons I gave above. For information, Linux on X-Box is not a viable solution either, since Microsoft have recently brought the Free-X case to court.

Tru · Regular Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 170 Location: SomeWhere

Good Point Kamadose... I see what you mean now.

But also on that note... I agree with Kamanari about the DreamCast. You will see that I had made a post about that before. The problem that people spoke of then was the whole Registration Key thought.

If one person buys the emulator.... and then they hand out their Key to others to place on the disc... then David is losing money. Now... before someone says that that would not happen.... think again. When I first got into Magic Engine it was because I had found an older version of the emulator that had the reg file with it. Thus, I had a free emulator... like I always thought they should be. Now that I have been in this scene for quite a few years... more than most... but less than others... I see the importance of needing to support emulator makers if they ask for it. Now... getting back to my point...

David would still not make as much money on it as he should... kinda like he isn't making as much as he should now... due to people that want everything for free... there will be people allowin downloads of a Registered emulator...

Kamadose... you can check for yourself on Project Turbo X how many people want a Registered Version of ME without having to pay for it. They start saying that ME (demo) is crippled or not fully functional... and we all know that it is fully functional... only with a 5 Minute timer set on the download.

The way I look at it... the Dreamcast would be the better way to go... due to the fact that the Hardware will not change. Therefore it would be less work to update. Whereas with the XBOX... I am sure that the good ole M$ will be changing their Hardware now as a result of the hacking being done to their XBOX system.

But.. on that note... I do see where you are coming from.

Trû

**EDIT**
Kamadose... sorry if I came across as harsh... I was not implying that you did not own the system... just that emulators have a way of illegally being used.... but then again... ask Nintendo.. and they say that it is 100% illegal. But at that point... I can sell a Hu-Card Game and not have anything to worry about... but I can not sell a Hu-Card Image as that is illegal. This isn't turning out the way I had hoped it would.. but I hope you see my point.
_________________
There are only 2 races on this planet... the Intelligent and the Stupid...

XPort · Visitor Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4

I am the individual who did the port of HUGO to the XBox along with many other systems :

http://xport.xbox-scene.com

I would very much like to help make a Magic Engine port to the XBox a reality.

I fully understand the legalities of distributing an XBox binary, and clearly Mr. Michel could not distribute/sell such a thing. However, I don't believe this would be necessary. The only people who are going to be running this on their XBox's are those who already know how to run homebrew software on them. These people also know where to find the binaries, so actually getting the executable is not the problem. The main problem (at least in my mind - please correct me if I'm wrong ) is how to avoid piracy of the XBox version. This can be done via the same method as the windows version. If I remember correctly, Magic Engine uses a validation key which is stored as a file on your computer. This same validation method could be implemented in the XBox version. (More on this below)

The other problem is the actual coding. I'm sure Mr. Michel has his hands full with the regular DOS/Windows versions of ME and is probably not interested in doing an XBox port. I'm also quite certain that he would not be inclined to hand over the source code to anyone so that they could do so. I would not need the source code for this project, however. All I would need are a set of precompiled windows object files that provide audio/video/input hooks that I could use. In several of the projects I've already done I have included OBJ files compiled from x86 assembly without any modification whatsoever. The XBox architecture is, practically, a regular X86 computer. If Mr. Michel could strip out all of the dos/windows-specific code (such as the video/sound output routines, reading of keyboards/joysticks, etc.) and produce object files that simply do the actual emulation, it should work just fine.

For example, provide a function called "init_magic_engine" wherein I could pass a pointer to a buffer that would contain the contents of the registration file. This would be validated inside the OBJ files as it is normally done in the DOS/Windows versions. Until that init function is called and things are validated successfully, all the other important functions would not work. (e.g. "get_video_buffer", "get_audio_buffers", "emulation_loop", etc.)

I would have no control over the actual validation functionality as that would all be contained in the object files. I would not be able to produce an XBox version that would bypass the registration. Any other fears one might have about piracy would be just the same as with the current DOS/Windows binaries.

If people have already bought the DOS/Windows version of ME, then the same registration should work in the above model. The XBox version then becomes an added "bonus" to registering ME. I'm sure this would encourage more than a few people to register ME if they haven't already.

I would enjoy speaking with Mr. Michel about this possibility, (whether it be here or via private message).

Thanks for your time
-XPort

Kaminari · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:46 am Post subject:

Hi,

It has been over a month now that Free-X made public its hack for running Linux on the Xbox, so this is a bit of old news -- but anyway, here are the links to the legal main'n mangle in the making:

ZDNet - 04 July 2003
ZDNet - 07 July 2003

Methinks the Xbox would have been better called the Pandora box.

XPort · Visitor Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4

Kaminari - was that a reply to my post or to something previously stated in this thread? If it was directed at my post, then I'm not sure I see the relevance. It is left as "an exercise for the user" as to how they actually execute an XBox ME binary.

If there is any concern that the ME authors might be linked to encouraging or being a part of some kind of illegal activity regarding an "official" ME port to the XBox, then the object files I mentioned in my previous post could be made publicly available on the ME website. This way, anyone could download them and make their own registration-enabled binary for XBox or Windows. Perhaps people would be inclined to use the object files to make new Windows binaries with more features. This could only be a good thing for the ME authors because they would be reaping the rewards of having someone else make UI improvements (since the new binaries that are created would still require a valid registration.)

Tru · Regular Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 170 Location: SomeWhere

XPort · Visitor Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4

I don't have any plans for any other platforms at this time.

-XPort

Specineff · Elder Joined: 29 Aug 2002 Posts: 258 Location: Arizona

Agh. I was expecting to hear about one in the works, given all the love DC has been getting lately. Oh well.

Anyway, here's my two cents.

How about some sort of password that gets assigned to each key that will be sent to unlock X-Engine ( Hint hint) and that must be entered whenever the emulator is started? The pass is unique to each key purchased, and won't work on another installed emu. No pass entered, no key activated, Emu remains on demo mode.

True, there is the issue of people burning to CD the key with the installer of this hypotethical Xbox version of ME and giving those away, but let's keep in mind there are lots and lots of keys on many of our PC's right now, that could be e-mailed to friends, or put in floppies and resold, but has not happened so far in massive occurrences. And I would never lower myself to stabbing Dave in the back by selling copies of my key.
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Proud owner of a Dreamcast, Saturn, Turbo Duo and a registered version of ME since 2002.

XPort · Visitor Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4

Specineff - why should anything different/special be done with an XBox port insofar as security is concerned? The current DOS/Windows key/registration method seems to work just fine. Nothing would need to change for a port to the XBox. (Adding a layer of complexity such as an XBox/ME-specific password would only cause problems down the road because you no longer have a singular registration system for all platforms.)

-XPort

Specineff · Elder Joined: 29 Aug 2002 Posts: 258 Location: Arizona

Gee, it was just a suggestion. lol Razz

Well, I'll leave those opinions to you, the experts in the case. Good luck porting and emulating, guys.
_________________
Proud owner of a Dreamcast, Saturn, Turbo Duo and a registered version of ME since 2002.